PotterCast 151: Spontaneous Combustion Transcript

News Talk (0:00 - 31:35)

Melissa Anelli (MA): Welcome back, guys! This is PotterCast 151! (JN and SU: Woo!) One fifty-one! I'm Melissa- just we can get all our voices straight- hi, I'm Melissa. I'm here with Sue Upton, Sue why don't you say your name now?

Sue Upton (SU): Hi, I'm Sue Upton! How you all doing? (laughs)

John Noe (JN): Oh, my God, it's Sue!

MA: Frank, who are you?

SU: It's me!

Frankie Franco III (FF): Huh?

MA: Who are you? Say your name for the record please.

FF: My name is Frank Frankie Franco, or Frankie Franco, or Frank Franco, or Frak, whatever you want to call me.

MA: Amazing. And John, let's just get you on record just for the sake of it.

JN: And I'm Ron! (All laugh)

SU: And your hand's all sweaty! I'm sorry.

MA: Now that we have that terribly difficult business out of the way, let's say hello to PotterCast number one fifty-one, where we're talking again, for the almost third year straight, about Harry Potter, Harry Potter, Harry Potter, Harry Potter,Harry Potter. Yeah, so before we do anything else...

JN: I'm getting kinda tired of these books.

FF: Oh, shut up.

MA: No, you're not. Thank you! Oh my God, somebody said "shut up" to John before I could! (FF laughs) That was amazing! That may be the first time that's ever happened!

FF: I just know John well enough now that he knows I don't mean it in a mean way.

MA: I love it! (JN laughs) I've got backup. Okay, well welcome, welcome, welcome, before we do anything else we have to hear from our friends at Audible.com.

Audible Ad: MA: This podcast is brought to you by Audible.com, the Internet's leading provider of spoken-word entertainment. Get a free audiobook download of your choice when you sign up today. Go to audible.com/PotterCast today for details.

FF: Holler back. And we're back, hello.

SU: Hello!

JN: Woo!

FF: (sings) Welcome back.

SU: (sings) Welcome back.

JN: What is up this week guys?

MA: How is everybody doing this week?

FF: Huh?

JN: Great.

SU: I'm waiting for the trailer, I want the trailer, just saying.

MA: Next week we think?

FF: Oh, I wanna see it so bad.

MA: We putting bets? This week? Or like, when this podcast comes out, within the next six or seven days.

SU: Yes, I agree. Whenever this podcast comes out, it'll be the week that this podcast comes out. That's what my little puffly senses are saying.

MA: Okay. Heard it here first. (SU: Yeah.) Sue-ill Trelawney.

JN: That's a pretty good Trelawney, Sue!

SU: Oh, yeah.

FF: Pulling a Trelawney!

SU: Can I have some sherry to toast out?

MA: All right, what else is happening in the news this week, Suz?

SU: Speaking of- (JN: Oh, it's news time.) speaking of movies and stuff, we keep- speaking of trailers and things, we kinda saw a little teeny bit, like of, opal yarn, of all things, yarn packaging, of all things? We saw new pictures, stills of- (MA: Yarn, did you say?) on yarn, seriously.

MA: Yeah, there was a whole, do you remember that we had a poster on Leaky that wasn't an official Half-Blood Prince poster, but it was an official poster of some sort? It was for yarn!

SU: Yarn! Seriously!

JN: That's ridiculous.

SU: Yarn.

MA: There was some poster that we had in a news article, and it looked like, it looked (FF: For knitting, yarn?) so official that it made a news post but it was for yarn. I don't know what this is! Sue, do you have more information about this yarn thing?

SU: It's actually a company in- (MA: Like, it's just yarn?) it is a legitimate yarn company and they're making special yarn for Harry Potter yarn, 'cause scarves and socks and whatever not, and each of these are wrapped with a different thing and they say (JN: Oh.) I know! And they have new photos of Harry, they have one of Harry and Ron, they have one of Tonks, of Lupin, it says, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, but it's in German, so whether or not they got the word from Warner Brothers not to put this stuff out, I don't know. It's very bizarre.

FF: That's funny!

JN: Do they have any of Harry and Ginny making out?

SU: No. Sorry, there's no necking yarn for you. No snogging yarn!

FF: Necking yarn.

JN: That'd be the most popular, 'cause that's what sells.

FF: It probably would.

JN: When I go to look for yarn, I look for the sex appeal.

FF: (laughs) Yes, it's a good quality for yarn to have.

JN: It is.

SU: I don't know! We have...

JN: If I sew with this yarn, I'm gonna get to kiss Ginny!

SU: Of all the places that you would think that we would see a...

JN: Probably a Harry would be more appropriate there.

SU: It's hard to not like, want to respond to him, but it's just, we're gonna keep moving right along. Anyways, that's in our galleries and I don't know, Warner Bros.?

JN: Moving right along! Sexy yarn. That's fun.

SU: Speaking of Tonks, we heard from Natalia Tena who plays Tonks, and she was at a Collectormania, which are conventions for people- you can go and get their autographs and stuff, and she talked to one of the fansites, and she said she's only in one scene in Half-Blood Prince, and it was the attack on the Burrow.

JN: Aw!

FF: What?

MA: Didn't she also say something else?

SU: Yes, she said that they just kinda show up as a couple, and then in Deathly Hallows she wants to fly with a pregnant belly as Tonks. (MA laughs)

JN: Woah, cool!

MA: But doesn't it, is it her that said that Dumbledore's funeral's not in the movie?

SU: Yeah, she did say that, and we don't know but she said that -

JN: What?

FF: What?

SU: It's not, they're not filming that scene. They didn't film it.

MA: Right. It's obviously not kinda (JN: That's kinda big news.) from Warner Bros. but it is kinda big news.

SU: Kinda big news.

JN: Oh my God!

FF: Well that sucks! (SU: If, yeah.) I wanted to see that!

JN: What? (SU: I mean...) (MA: I know...) Are they gonna have the story be- they didn't have a funeral? Or they'd just be like, "Oh, I just got back from the funeral, that was rough."

MA: Maybe they just don't go through the motions of having the funeral. Maybe it's just the next day they talk, they go their ways and- you know?

JN: I have to say, this is kind of poetic for all of the chopping of the end of the movie (SU): Yeah.) Dumbledore bits, this is like the final chopping of the end of the book, end of the movie Dumbledore bit, not having his funeral. It's like come Deathly Hallows we're going to have the bit in the little Afterlife dream sequence kind of thing and Dumbledore will probably just call Harry on the phone or something at that point. Like, "Oh, sorry. Chopped out of the scene."

SU: I can see how they might make it very dramatic and just make it like, you know, go from a shot of his body and everything gathered around to a fade away scene to his tomb, and in the distance the next morning, you know, they fade up and you can see the white tomb glittering in the background. And then they can just go to Harry and they're walking away or something. I mean, you can just get the message without actually having to have that scene, which I can see them doing for effect.

FF: Okay, I can see that.

JN: I heard they were going to have him spontaneously combust, (SU laughs) like a phoenix when they hit the ground. (FF: And then a...) I heard he was going to fall off the tower and then hit the ground and turn into a bunch of blue and purple sparkles and things, like the dragon in Enchanted.

SU: Oh! That same over-head shot of watching him... (laughs)

MA: Okay, we're ruining the end of Enchanted for people.

JN: Oh, there's no dragon in Enchanted.

MA: There's no dragon.

JN: I love that movie! I don't even care who knows. I love that movie.

MA: I love that movie. That movie's amazing.

SU: That's just, oh, for Pete's sake!

MA: What do you mean you don't care who knows? Why would you care?

JN: I don't know. My sisters even tease me about liking that movie, but whatever.

MA: That movie's great. Shush!

SU: Okay, you know how we were talking about scenes they were cutting in like, you know, the Dumbledore scene? But one thing they might've put in, because we keep hearing about minor little casting parts, but there was somebody who was cast as somebody named Sophie, whose in the opening. On the casting side, it said that she was in the opening boardroom scene of Half-Blood Prince. Boardroom.

MA: Opening boardroom scene? Are they- is this going to be like a Ministry of Magic thing?

SU: I don't know! That's what we're all talking about.

MA: Or the Minister, the other Minister.

SU: I thought they had cut that! I thought we heard rumors before that they had cut the other Minister chapter, you know, scene? (FF: Oh!) We had heard rumors before that they had cut the other Minister chapter. But now, if they cast someone for that, maybe (MA: Yeah!) it's in! I don't know!

MA: Maybe because think of what that scene might be. Maybe it would be a lot of people who have never been in a Harry Potter movie before and Cornelius Fudge and Rufus Scrimgeour, who are really not the type to get rumors started around the internet. They're kind of the kind of actors who just stay by themselves.

JN: I heard that they cast Tony Blair. (SU laughs)

MA: Yeah. Yes, John, they cast Tony Blair.

JN: He was into it, you know? He's like, "Harry Potter was big for my country and I want to be a- leave my mark!"

MA: They should cast him and the Queen.

SU: Yeah, he was great. He's a good actor.

MA: Yeah. It was great.

SU: Yeah, it was.

JN: He's just teaching classes now these days, isn't he? (SU: Yeah! Yeah, he is.) Isn't he a professor now or something? (MA: I don't know.) He can take a few sick days or whatever and shoot a scene.

MA: Why are- Why do you yearn for Tony Blair? What's the big deal?

JN: 'Cause it's cool! Cause he would have been Prime Minister at the time this is happening.

SU: Yeah, well.

MA: Okay, John.

JN: Wouldn't he? How long was he Prime Minister for?

MA: No, I think you're right, I just...

SU: It's just ain't gonna happen. You know, it's just not gonna happen, John. (laughs)

FF: It is kinda cool!

JN: It'd be this big reveal.

MA: Everyone starts screaming, "Oh, my God!"

SU: This is really fascinating, because I love the BBC. I do! And I was really surprised, but they showed some aerial footage of Leavesden Studios in England where they film the Harry Potter movies, and they show all the sets out back! They show Privet Drive set! They showed the footage of The Burrow! You can see The Burrow, which is really cool! (JN: Whoa.) And it looks really cool. And it looks like they're created a - some are speculating an orphanage, but I think it's the base of the Astronomy Tower. 'Cause if you look, it's like an enclosed courtyard and, cause we have all the caps in our galleries, and there's like a rounded thing, like an Astronomy Tower. That's what I think it is! Way cool.

JN: Hm, yeah, that'd be awesome!

MA: Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool.

SU: But I think...

JN: I remember when we were there for the thing and it was raining all day and we couldn't go out and look at any of the sets.

MA: Gross (SU: Yeah.) that day. (JN: Yeah.) Bummer.

JN: Bummeroni.

SU: I wanna say, Jo did a couple things. There's one- she's contributed this, it's called a story card, for a charity auction that her and some other authors are gonna donate and they're gonna raffle off- 'scuse me, auction off, not raffle- something for a dislexsia charity in the UK. So it's going to be some sort of creative thing. We don't know what it is. It's on a blank thing. We don't know if it's gonna be a little short story, or it's gonna be a sketch, we don't know. Thought that'd be kind of cool to bid on. (MA: Yeah!) This is one more legal thing, Jo won a legal matter in the UK, and the reasons why we are talking about this is because it's about photographs, involving photographs of her young son, David, and they had taken it to - right, Melissa? - taken it to court and it was on the appeal.

MA: Yeah! And it just shows you how high you have to try in these things. It's been two years since she filed this case. And she lost the initial case and appealed it and it was reversed on appeal. And it's basically- it's an interesting ruling because it's saying that while they except that even to an extent her husband, but mostly Jo, excepts that she's a public figure (SU: Mm-hm.) and pictures will get taken, it doesn't automatically mean that your children are public figures too and are applicable to the same rules. So they're basically saying that children of celebrities have a right to be protected and I think that's important legislation certainly in (SU: Clearly.) Britain, but all over the globe, you know, so.

JN: Yeah.

FF: I respect her so much for, you know, just putting up with all the tease, paperwork, and the time frame for that because it sets such a nice precedent. I was subbing today and we watched a video on just corporations and how like originally corporations were started to help (SU: Mm-hm.) and they had agendas, but then just illegal loopholes, they become these like- these beings, these entities in the size of law without the repercussions like people would have if they were doing the same thing. (SU: Mm.) It's really interesting and it's just- it goes just to show like our courts has such influence on our society and the fact she kind of stuck out- to stuck with it just to kind of set this positive precedent (JN: Yeah.) is so encouraging.

MA: It's really encouraging for somebody with the resources to do so fighting these kind of things because the children can't (FF: Mm-hm.) and most authors aren't, aren't really in a position to use their money that way and most other celebrities- let's be frank- (FF: Exactly.) haven't really fought these battles because...

JN: Well, a lot of them use it to their advantage. (MA: Right.) It's annoying. They'll sell the stories. (SU: Mm-hm. ) They'll sell the pictures to the magazines (MA: Right.) and they'll just perpetuate that this is okay and that we're used to seeing, you know, whatever her name is. (MA: Suri.) Suri.

SU: Oh yeah, three million dollars (MA: Ugh!) and all this stuff.

JN: And all nine of Angelina Jolie's kids.

FF: Don't get me started.

JN: It's ridiculous.

MA: Somebody is finally thinking about the interest of the actual children which I think is admirable.

SU: Yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm all for freedom of express- you know, she should have them, but there's no need. Why do you need to see the photographs of their young, eighteen month old children? Why? Why? (MA: Right.) What's the point in that?

MA: Right. To be honest, until Radio City Music Hall when I saw her in person, not Carnegie Hall, but Radio City, because I just happened to turn around when she was there, I'd never seen (SU: Yeah.) Jessica Rowling. I'd never seen a picture. Like that's how private they've been (SU: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.) which is kind of amazing.

SU: And good for her! They said in their statement that they want a normal life for their children (MA: Great.) and her and her husband, (FF: Yes.) Dr. Murrary and you know what? Good for them. Bring it on. That's good.

MA: Do we have other legal stuff to talk about this week?

JN: What's Mr. Hammer up to this week?

MA: Mr. Hammer (FF: Mr. Hammer!) is preparing his briefs today as we're recording this, but maybe by the time this comes out we'll have- oh God, I hope by the time this comes out we don't have to record a whole other podcast. We're discussing the end. (JN: No!) But soon they're will either be a judgement or a settlement if- which I would have no reason not to believe they aren't working on a settlement if they can get there in the Lexicon case. So that's what's happening now. We're still just (JN: Sweet.) (FF: Really.) waiting.

JN: I can't wait- I can't wait to start my Mr. Hammer fansite. (MA: John!) With all the flash animation films I'm going to make with him going out on adventures and fighting crime and hammering things. It's going to be awesome.

MA: He's going to sue you eventually.

JN: Oh! It could be a completely other different Mr. Hammer. It's a very common name.

MA: Because there's so many of them. (MA and JN laugh)

JN: Well, yes. A hammer-shaped biped action hero fighting crime (MA: John.) by hitting with its head.

MA: Just a reminder for those who aren't familiar, we aren't taking, you know, advantage of people knowing what goes on here. The Lexicon case is one of which JKR and Warner Bros. are attempting to stop publication of an unauthorized encyclopedia. And basically, the judge now has to figure out- the trial's happened and the judge has to look at everything that's gone on and figure out whether the book can be published as is or not and in the meantime, as he has urged- and judges tend to urge- they are working in and hopefully in the background to try and get to a place where they can settle so that it doesn't have to set precedent.

JN: And take like five years in appeals court.

MA: Somebody else talk about what else is happening in the lawsuit this week so we can dispense.

JN: I haven't been following it this week to be honest. (MA: You lie.) What?

SU: There (MA: He knows.) was an article that appeared in (FF: Sorry.) The New Yorker magazine and it's- New Yorker magazine and yeah.

JN: Oh, that one.

MA: (laughs) Oh, that one.

FF: Oh, that one. Oh.

MA: Shockingly.

JN: Oh! The asshat. (MA: John!) What? (MA: Go ahead, Sue.) That's my opinion. He can quote that in his next one.

SU: Say it again, John.

MA: I'm sure that will happen.

FF: What did you say?

JN: I called him an asshat. (FF laughs)

MA: Frankie laughs like that and I can't (inaudible).

JN: I don't care. I'm so sick of everything. You got these articles coming out with these people trying to write about the J.K. Rowling case because they think it's going to sell articles. And they do the bare minimal research about it and try to make cute jokes about it and write- make queer drawings of Jo and Steve in their article. And whatever.

FF: It's such stupid...

MA: Sue? Can you explain?

FF: Their clever language that they use to. It's like, "Oh, she's so poignant with the verbage they use."

JN: Yeah.

MA: Sue, can you explain before we get to the point of this article?

SU: Yes. No that's fine. (FF: Sorry, Sue, for interrupting.) This was written by a man named Tim Wu who is a professor of law, I believe, at Columbia University. And I believe attended the trial that John and Melissa attended as well, in New York, of the WA...

JN: Yeah. I recall it perfectly, because I remember who he was sitting next to.

MA: Supposedly.

SU: And the point of this article was not to about the legal merits of the case. It was titled "Fan Feud" and the point was to talk about how the fandom is between Steve Vander Ark and Melissa. And trying to say- there were quotes that- I don't even know how to verbalize this, but it was a...

MA: It was...

FF: They were ridiculous.

MA: Two quotes- (FF: he said something like...) two quotes in there are- (SU: Yes.) We should just clarify right now. They were misquoted and also taken out of context. (JN laughs) Mr. Wu has apologized to me after lengthy conversations and The New Yorker has agreed to run a correction. (JN: Really?) Yes.

FF: Nice.

JN: Oh, so I don't have to call him an asshat anymore.

MA: (laughs) No. You can take that back now, John. (laughs) But...

JN: Okay. You were an asshat for thirty seconds, Tim Wu, I guess.

FF: You are a regular hat.

MA: How many times can you work that word into the show? Jesus.

JN: I'm working on it. I'm looking forward to the Elves having a go at it.

FF: Now he can be a bum cap.

MA: I just put God's name in vain. See, we're all on the fast track to the hot place this week. So. Okay. (FF laughs) So, basically there were two quotes. One was- that was ascribed to me that were- So, all right, basically there were these two quotes. (sighs) One was quote, unquote, "He's vilified now." Referring to Steve. The other one was, "He has ruined his good standing." Now, technically, (Su: Mm-mm.) I did not say those things. Technically, in last week's or the week's before that's podcast, Sue said those things. But, even though she said those things, and that's the accurate thing, the way it was portrayed in the article still isn't quite fair because it was saying- it was used as evidence that we have this feud, and we are vilifying him. But Sue wasn't saying, "We announce that he is vilified now." (laughs) (JN: Yeah.) Sue was saying that...

FF: (laughs) (in British accent) "The Leaky Cauldron has declared!"

MA: "We are- we are making a declaration." No. (SU: Mm-hm.) She was saying this is what's happening in the fandom. He's been vilified and he's ruined his good standing and...

JN: I shall place my cauldron's stamp upon this parchment. (MA: Yeah, I know!) (MA and FF and SU laugh) It shall be made into law and the fans say this.

MA: Ludicrous. Oh, (FF laughs) yeah. (FF: inaudible) So, there's that and later John's words got taken out of context. (JN: Yeah.) John, who just- uh. John- and if you look really closely, I discovered when I was rereading this article for the eighteen millionth time, when if you look really closely the statements don't follow. Because they're used as- John's words were- "It's like if a family member goes out and does something horrible," John said whatever. "There's no room for sympathy." If you look at those two quotes, they don't make sense. "Because it's like when a family member does something horrible," is you're saying there's sympathy but they're still your family. (JN: Yeah.) And John said that as an argument for sympathy. And much later, or maybe much earlier, just certainly not connected, you said, (laughs) "There's no room for sympathy." (JN: Yeah.) When you were talking about how you don't feel the sympathy for being outcast from a fan community when you don't feel he's acted like a fan.

JN: Exactly, exactly. That's why it was ridiculous. (FF: Yes.) And I remember they called me and I was driving on the way to the zoo (laughs) with my sister and my nephew (MA: Yeah.) and this lady calls to fact-check and I'm like, "You know, let me call the f-ing Transcription Elves." I don't remember what I said. We've done 151 of these things.

MA: That's what I said to her, too. She said to me, "We got this from the podcast. Did you say this?" I said, "Look. I really can't remember. I'm not going to tell you yes. I'm not going to tell you no. You have to go look at the podcast." (JN: Yeah.) And clearly she went- maybe she went back to the podcast and heard that the quote was there but didn't check that it was (SU: Mm.) my voice and not Sue's. And since I spent like an hour or forty-five minutes on the phone with Tim Wu, (SU: Mm-hm.) I feel like that error should've been his to catch. You know? (JN and FF: Yeah.) But he's apologized and that's all that's necessary as far as that thing is concerned. As far as I'm- but people read articles, they don't read corrections. So damage is done. And then- ugk- John or Frankie. (JN: Is he an asshat again?) You say what happened. It's not him. You say what happened at the end of the article because I just...

FF: Oh, the whole quote on how he said that, "Melissa Anelli is comfortable with her position. J.K. Rowling is God and she is her prophet." Whatever. I'm sorry. (JN: No. It's a pretty- it's a pretty...) Get over yourself. You did this to yourself. That's a very heavy statement to make.

JN: It's a pretty- Yeah, how damning is it to say that J.K. Rowling respects somebody as a fan in someone who's done a pretty good job representing the interests of the fans. And using any kind of influence having a big Potter fansite has to protect the fans against spoilers and everything else that the site's done. So, yeah, to say that Jo would appreciate somebody like that, that's a pretty mean thing to say, I think. And, you know what? (MA: Yeah. It...) It's a very transparent motivation behind saying something like that, so...

MA: In context, the comment followed a statement that Jo had sought me out and hugged me during the proceedings.

JN: It was a dark alley and (MA: Yeah.) she was looking both ways first and it was very shady. There's drugs exchanged.

MA: But if I'm not mistaken, I don't even think Steve was in the courtroom for that to be very honest. I don't think he saw it. I think this article might've been how he found out. But he said, "That might've done more to hurt Mr. Vander Ark than the rest of it." And he said something like, "I can't blame her for liking her status." Which is just- I found out about it about two o'clock in the morning, and John was the only person awake. (SU: Yeah.) And- made sense to this email, like completely distraught, and in shock. And John got to hear my blubberings. But poor John. (JN: Poor John.) Yeah. (JN: No, whatever.) Yeah. I spent a very long time on the phone with Mr. Wu before this article, talking about the actual concept of the case, and during which he told me that he thought that I had turned him around on the case. He's been a very active pro-RDR person, and he's been a very clear advocate of expanding copyright. He repeatedly asked me to comment on the breakup of my and Steve Vander Ark's friendship, and I wouldn't. And I kept saying, "No," and then he said something like- he called him a "rogue fan." And then he went "Wait, did you say he was a rogue fan?" I said "No," and he said "Do you want to?" I was like, "No." (JN laughs) And like every time he asked I said like, (FF: Are you kidding me?) "Look, I'm sorry. It's personal. I'm just not." (FF sighs) So, I was very hurt. And that's all I'm going to say about it.

SU: Yeah. It- I'm going to say this. It disturbs me that this point has been reached in this outcome of the case. It has nothing to do with legal matters. Nothing. (MA: Mm-hm.) And having worked in the media- and I love it. It's what I do. I've spent the last twenty years of my life and that's what I do. I love it. But when we take this kind of making fun of fans as been pointed out to me. This is nothing new. Making fun of- we're all peop- it's easy for the media to say "Oh, look at these freaks, these geeks, these-" whatever. But, to try- I believe that this was a deliberate attempt, and this is my opinion, my personal opinion, that it was a deliberate attempt to stir the pot where there was not pot to be stirred. There's enough out there as it is. It disappointed me on so many levels I can't even- I just- Why are we here? (JN: Yeah.) Why are we at this point? This has been very difficult for me and I don't understand this- I don't understand how we got to this point. I don't see the need for this. And I'm glad he apologized to you Melissa. (MA: I have no need for it.) But, you know what? He is a professor- (JN: Wait who apologized?) someone- (MA: Wu.) I would like to get my doctorate, too. And if I would ever teach my students that this is the kind of quality journalism, then I would not consider myself a viable educator. (MA: No.) And I would be ashamed of that. And I find this just- You know, I understand you get to a point and you just get emotional. And there's been so much anger on both sides. There's been so much. And it's been very, very, very, very difficult as a person who's tried to see both sides. It's just been horrible. Horrible to sit and watch this. And then when I see something like this printed that- (JN: Yeah.) The New Yorker has a million readers. They are a widely respected magazine. And a...

FF: Mm-hm.

MA: Yeah. (JN: Yeah.) (SU: I know.) And Sue, (sighs) everything you say is a hundred percent. (SU: Mm-hm.) It's because it was The New Yorker. There's a million blogs out there that say a million different things, and nobody's going to kick up dirt about that, but when a respected institution of journalism says something like that about you and makes those implications, it's- And to clarify, he apologized to me about the mis-quote. He made no apologies about the tone of the article. Which I agree with you, is wrong.

JN: It's about as absurd as the illustration that accompanied it, to me. I saw that thing, that's the first thing I saw, I'm like "What is this clown trying to do here?" So, I read the whole article in that light of, you know, gosh they're really taking this issue seriously.

SU: I understand that Mr. Wu is a fair use proponent, and that's fine. That's his thing. And if this was supposed to be an opinion piece, it wasn't really reading to me as an opinion piece, but more as like trying to be a factual thing. I personally don't think that either side looked very- (FF: Mm.) I just- (MA: Yeah.) wow. And you know what? He's entitled to his opinion but, my God, this is not the way to do it. My God. I'm sorry. That's just...

MA: It's just- and he couldn't understand. He kept saying things like, "But, it's flattering to you." I'm like, "No." He's like, "Well, I publicized that you have a good relationship with Jo," and I'm like (laughs) "Well, that's neither here nor there. That's not something to throw a party about." (FF: It's not an issue, and it's kind of a back-handed way of doing it.) And I said, "This is what you have to understand. It has been seven months of this trial. Seven months of watching the fandom go at each other with their teeth bared. Seven months of being very upset personally about things that are private. About revelations that have been made. About the break up of something that I thought was a friendship. About everything. And I have worked very hard, sometimes successfully, sometimes not successfully, I'll be very honest about that. But I'm human like everybody else. And to keep my comments, and to keep everything sterile and not stir things, to not do that." And I said to him, "And then you took something that could only look harsh in print and ascribed it to me in The New Yorker." I was like, "So, can you understand why that upsets me?" And that's when he apologized. So it's being in journalism is like being a privately paid public servant. You have a responsibility to not do this to people, which is why we've never made sweeping declarations and opinions in our posts about this because it's just not (laughs) you know. And so, yeah, this has been a really trying week for that, but.

JN: Yeah.

SU: You know, and I'm not going to make any- Steve is my friend. Here, if we haven't said it before. Hey, Steve is my friend. Steve is my friend. And it's been hard for me to watch this and see this kind of thing and I don't think that this personally helped his side if you have to say a side. I don't think anybody benefitted by that piece and I don't understand. (MA: No. We didn't.) I just keep going back to this and this mantra: I don't understand it. I don't get why we're at this point anymore. And I'm praying that there's a settlement and maybe it's foolish and naive of me to hope so but I keep hoping that we could reach something.

MA: I hope so, too. I hope it's, Sue, I hope it's written to be a great commentary plus encyclopedia that includes a lot of facts and does all the right sourcing, it does everything. I hope it's (SU: Right.) redone to all those specifications and is awesome and I hope Mr. Vander Ark goes on to a happy and healthy and fruitful and long and most of all healthy life. whether that's in fandom, outside of fandom, whatever. I just- I think you are right in the statements that you have recently made publicly, that to see the fandom just going like this and like this and like this is- Anyway, what I just said that you might have missed is that I hope this is to see the fandom go back and forth and be vicious is really wearing on everybody and it's just. I wake up every day and I go see what's happening with this because it's incumbent upon the people who run this site (SU: Yeah.) to just kind of keep- it's a big issue right now and it's. (laughs) I can't tell you what it's like. It's just a constant drain like there's a faucet on my brain. You know?

JN: I haven't really been reading a hell of a lot of it myself. Is this something, when you say it's splitting the fandom, is there honestly (MA: I don't think so.) that many people on the other side of this?

MA: No, I think it's just a loud minority of fandom, honestly. I think that people have strong views but if you're talking about the fandom as a whole, you can't make generalizations that way. I think these are, there's like maybe ten percent of fandom generally who's really seriously interested and another ten percent of that who are actually active. Maybe

SU: And I think there's an awful lot of us that are hurt by it all and that's a reality. I think a lot of us just want this. They can't believe this. No one wants this. I mean, who wants this? No one.

MA: Nobody. Nobody. Nobody. Nobody wants it. I don't care what (SU: Exactly. Exactly right. Exactly.) you say to anybody on either side. Nobody wanted to go to court.

SU: Yes! Please!

MA: Can we get out of this mess? (FF: Yes.) You've got to see, I'm tearing my hair, I'm rushing.

JN: Let's talk about some canon and then we have some more auditions this week. The last...

MA: Oh! Wait! Sue, John, Sue, John, we have the thing in Florida.

JN: We'll do it in the wrap-up.

MA: Okay, I thought we should announce it here, but.

SU: Okay.

JN: They'll remember it more in the wrap-up. (SU laughs)

MA: Okay, listen to the wrap-up everybody.

JN: Okay, we have the third round, not the third round, but the third part of our first round of auditions (SU: Ooh.) for the acting troupe coming up, too. And we will have our polls fixed (laughs) (MA: We hope.) on PotterCast.com very soon and we'll leave the voting open for all three of those parts for you guys to.

MA: We should also put up a flash file of the actual audition pieces above the polling thing. (JN: Probably.) Just to be fair. Because it's been. People don't remember, you know?

JN: Yeah, that would be handy. Okay, let's push on.

MA: Yay! To the drums. Or to the other stuff.

JN: To everything else.