PotterCast 145: The Fantastic Four Transcript

News Talk (0:00 - 33:47)

Melissa Anelli (MA): Welcome to PotterCast 145, the first show ever with the PotterCast quartet.

Sue Upton (SU): Whoa.

John Noe (JN): What?

Frankie Franco III (FF): Dun dun dun.

MA: Oh my goodness, there's four of us now. What will you do?

JN: I think we can go square dancing now 'cause we have partners (MA: Mm-hm.) and all four houses and everything.

SU: Have you ever square danced? (MA: Go on double dates to the prom, like John said.) Doe see doe?

JN: Oh that's right, prom. Aw.

FF: Yule Ball. There we go.

MA: All right, well, welcome to PotterCast Number 145. What do we have this week? We return with "Are You Smarter Than John Noe?"

JN: Oh, I hope it worked. (SU and MA laugh) That was a bit of a train wreck because we decided the morning of, "Hey let's play the game again!"

MA: And we forgot to collect the numbers and make- (JN: Prepare the recording.) prepare the recording, and it was a mess. So we have "Are You Smarter than John Noe?" We've got a Bit By Bit, and you guys are gonna do a Canon Conundrums; I'm not gonna be in that one. And is that about it for this week?

SU: Yeah.

FF: News.

JN: Yeah, I think that's about it.

MA: No Phoenix Files 'cause we're running long again.

JN: Yeah, no Phoenix Files, sorry Phoenix.

MA: All righty, well we're right into it, so why don't we hear from Sue and what's going on in the Potter world this week.

SU: Well, okay. It's unconfirmed but I believe that we have a credible report that the long discussed, hoped for teaser trailer for Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince will come in May. We believe May 16th.

MA: May?

JN: May HBP? (SU: May.) Trailer number one?

SU: Yeah.

FF: Crazy.

JN: Is Kreacher going to be in it? I hope Kreacher's in it.

SU: I think that he is, but I don't know if he'll be in the trailer.

MA: Yeah, I dunno about the trailer but they're probably still working on him.

JN: I know I'm just teasing. That's what we we were whining about last movie.

SU: I dunno, there was much discussion, much bruhaha why they might put it in front of Prince Caspian, which is the second Chronicles of Narnia, as opposed to Speed Racer.

MA: Well, why wouldn't they? Narnia is a classic tie-in to Harry Potter, people much more quickly think...

JN: Yeah.

FF: It's along the same genre.

SU: Exactly.

JN: Why would they want it in front of Speed Racer?

SU: Well, it's a Warner Bros. production and they're saying it's because it's another Warner Bros....

JN: Well, let's think of before...

FF: They put the other one over March of the Penguins.

JN: Remember we had one in front of the freakin' live action Scooby Doo movie that was total crap?

SU: Yes! (laughs) That was...

FF: I liked Scooby Doo.

JN: You liked that movie?

FF: They're fun!

JN: No, the actual movie.

FF: Velma's hot. (JN laughs)

MA: Frak! (laughs)

FF: I like the smart girls.

SU: (laughs) She wore the leather suit, (JN: That's the one of the only movies I've ever walked out of.) that's why.

JN: I went to it so I could see the trailer.

FF: (gasps) What?

JN: I'm sorry.

FF: Oh.

MA: Frak's pissed.

SU: Well, I think it makes sense, though. It's a good audience, it's the same kinda age range and kinda people, and I just think it's smart. But I mean, bring it on.

MA: Sue, how confident do you think we are on this little scoopy thing?

SU: I think we have a good credible source.

MA: Great. Awesome. (SU: That's what I think.) Well, I will hold you personally responsible on May 16th. How 'bout that? (laughs)

SU: Okay, it'll be my fault. (MA and SU laugh) (JN: Aw.) It's Sue's fault! (MA: All Sue's fault.) It's those Hufflepuffs! (FF: Oh, no!) Can't get anything right. Melly, you're gonna love this next part. We saw yet another set teaser report that you can't talk about, but this one came from- (MA: Right.) I know, I'm sorry, it's cruel. But they're talking about Slughorn's Christmas party, and it was happening when they were on the set. And- (FF: Christmas party.) yeah, I'm excited about this. But this was- (FF: I'm looking forward to that.) Me too! Oh, I remember Emma Watson- didn't she write they were having pettaroles or petta- some sort of petaforoles- when they were filming...

MA: Profiterole! Oh jeez! (laughs)

SU: Oh, God. I said it way wrong, way bad, not even close! (FF: What?) People are like, (JN: It's some kind of food?) "Sue, what they hell are you talking about?"

MA: Profiterole, it's an Italian dessert. (laughs)

JN: Oh.

FF: Oh, it's a very different word.

SU: Profiteroles.

MA: I thought you were going to say something else Sue. I thought, "They're becoming what?"

SU: Nevermind. You know what I was thinking? (FF: Yeah, I was like, "Uh...") (MA: What movie are you watching?) I was thinking petafores. That's what I could think of in my mind, cause of you're Southern petafores. (JN: Oh gosh, I just got that.) That's all I kept thinking. Oh, God. Nevermind I give up, anyhow- this article that- the translation of this article said, too, that they describe, "It's a complex story, and it isn't a simple romance because Harry is such a close friend of Ron's, and Ginny is his sister, and Harry feels as if he's walking on eggshells." (FF and JN: Hm.) I don't know.

MA: I dunno. I think we're gonna see a different genesis of the Harry-Ginny romance, (SU: You do? Hm.) as in a more slow kind of sweet thing than what happened in Book Six, which was bam they kiss, you know?

JN: Yeah. It's just gonna click in his head at some point?

MA: No, I think he's gonna be attracted to her from the beginning of the movie and that they're finally gonna kiss at some point, but I think it's gonna be a more tender kind of Cho-kiss than what we read in the book. That's my guess.

JN: Hm.

SU: Cool.

JN: I don't know. Do you think they're gonna make up Bonnie all totally different, and give her- I just picture her all done up like she's going to a party with make-up and her hair all just obnoxiously- what's the word for it? (MA and FF: Tarted up.) Tarted up.

FF: I think her hair's longer for this movie.

JN: I liked it curly.

MA: Curly, John?

JN: Her hair looked- when it was kinda curled in the Chamber.

MA: That's 'cause it was wet. (SU laughs)

JN: Why was it wet? Was she swimming?

SU: John! There was water down there in the Chamber!

MA: (inaudible) John?

JN: Eh.

FF: Oh, yeah, that's right.

JN: In Chamber of Secrets.

SU: Remember the basilisk? Came zooming out of the water?

FF: She was lying in a puddle with a snake drooling on top of her.

SU: Yeah.

MA: The puddle and then the diary.

JN: Well, her hair looked better then.

MA: All right, John. I know you want wet-tussled Ginny, but you're going to have to hold it in.

JN: What?

FF: What? (laughs)

MA: Ah, don't go there, guys! With your dirty minds. Seriously.

SU: Melissa Anelli, I think you've gone crazy from this weather. That's it. It's crazy over there. (JN: Oh, my.) I don't even know what to say.

JN: If anybody's out there- no, moving on. (SU laughs)

MA: Please. What else is up, Suze?

SU: Okay, Jo presented some literacy awards to inmates of a prison in Edinburgh, Scotland, on behalf of a charity called the Shannon Trust, which help promotes reading among- for the inmates and encourage to learn to read. Some of them have, or had, very poor education and stuff, so Jo presented these awards which I can imagine went over pretty well. Here comes this big- (JN: Was she there personally?) Yeah. She went over there and presented them. And she said it was a positive experience going there and- She said, "Learning to read represents a significant turning point in anyone's life and it may be the one thing that helps make a difference to help people in prison turn their lives around". Which is pretty cool.

FF: Absolutely.

JN: That's awesome!

SU: Yeah, it is.

JN: That's really cool of her to- I wonder what attracted her to that cause. That's interesting.

FF: Probably her love of literature.

MA: Maybe somebody wrote her a letter.

JN: Oh, Frankie. Thanks.

MA: What'd you say?

JN: There's a lot of people in the world who love literature.

FF: I- you know what? I was just trying to be nice.

MA: Yeah. Okay, Sue.

SU: There was a new article on CNN, and I thought it was nice that Harry Potter is now being taught in more and more univeristies here in the United States. And there was a nice one about a grad student's teaching at the Yale, I think it's Divinity College, was teaching about it. So it was really nice to see the book sbeing taught in a more academic setting and getting some more credence for it, so I thought it was pretty cool.

MA: Nice.

FF: That is very cool.

SU: Yeah.

JN: And they also plan more Quidditch in colleges.

SU: Yes, they certainly are, John. That was pretty cool! Did you see that? It was on the CBS morning channel and stuff. They took that Middlebury College went- did a Quidditch Spring Break tour.

FF: Yeah. Wow.

JN: Can you just imagine, maybe thirty years down the line, if Quidditch keeps growing in popularity at colleges, if they actually built stadiums like they so for football. (SU: That'd be awesome!) And big varsity sports, or whatever. It's not varsity in college, though. (MA: Okay, John.) But you know what I mean. They have a whole national league for it. NCAA Quidditch.

SU: That would be awesome.

JN: That would be sweet. (MA: Guys.) You can buy season tickets. (MA: Guys.) It could happen.

MA: I'm glad you think so. (FF laughs)

JN: I think we'll see anti-gravity in our lifetimes. (SU laughs)

MA: On a field?

JN: Yeah, a whole dome that they can eliminate gravity.

MA: And how would you sit down and watch the sport?

JN: You float and watch the sport. (MA laughs) Maybe the audience section has regular gravity.

MA: Right. Only the field is anti-gravity.

JN: Yeah, it's a dome.

MA: They have it already. (FF: All you do is...) But it's for training to go up to space, and Idon't think they're going to spend it on... (laughs)

FF: What they'd do is build a giant stadium, hook some rockets into it, (JN: They could do it on the moon!) shoot it into outerspace and then just telebroadcast (MA: But it's not...) all of the Quidditch matches.

MA: Floating around on the moon has nothing to do with actually propelling a broom to fly.

FF: Jumping!

JN: Yes, you could, 'cause you could propel the broom for its forward momentum and not have to worry about its constant level in the air, because there's no gravity to bring it down.

FF: And the snitch could be a hummingbird.

MA: Just saying, it's not that it is impossible, but I just doubt that (laughs) it would be become a national sporting event.

JN: If there's enough interest.

FF: They can get hummingbird and spray paint it gold. (SU laughs)

JN: Think about it: our little Harry Potter generation (MA: Wait a second. Frak...) will grow up in those twenty, thirty years and they'll be in charge of everything and then they can decide what they want to do with the country's budget.

MA: Frak?

FF: Yes?

MA: Did you just suggest that they paint hummingbirds gold?

SU: He did!

FF: With non-abrasive chemicals! (JN laughs)

MA: You would get arrested in the Wizarding World, dude.

SU: Yes, you would.

JN: No.

FF: The snitch used to be a bird.

SU: But they got away with it. They stopped it because it was inhumane!

FF: I don't know how to design a snitch.

JN: If they have a spell that can turn a rat yellow, they have a spell that's going to turn a hummingbird gold. (SU laughs)

MA: But...

FF: But, we're not having spells.

JN: Oh, right. (JN and FF laugh)

FF: If they can do a spell, I don't think there's a need...

JN: I forgot about the whole magic-not-being-real thing.

MA: Yey! Muggles have magic. Let's paint some hummingbirds gold. That's the first thing you want to do. (JN: That's as much as...) Screw cancer, let's- (JN: Let's devote all of our attention and resources...) jeez. Okay, Sue, can we move on?

SU: Yeah, this is kind of actually a serious thing. A couple of weeks ago we talked- Jo gave an interview to a student in Edinburgh, that appeared in a student magazine. And more and more keeps trickling out and the guy released audio, apparently to national media, about saying that Jo was speaking about her battles with depression. And that- lot of media got it wrong. And Jo was saying that at some points she had suicidal thoughts and of course the media's like, "Oh! Jo is-" but she was...

MA: But here's the thing. Here's the really dangerous, insidious thing (SU: Yes.) about the media. It's not that they got it technically wrong, technically all their facts were right, (SU: Mm-hm.) but every blaring headline, every whis- everything you heard, every sound bite you took away was, "Author had suicidal thoughts, author has suicidal thoughts. J.K. Rowling: Suicidal" (SU: Right.) and that is just such an insult. (SU sighs) Talked (inaudible)...

JN: That's terrible.

FF: That's out of context, and that's frustrating.

MA: Oh, talk- honestly, my mother calls me up and she goes, "Melissa, breaking news about J.K. Rowling on chan- on News at Eleven!" and I said, "Ma, it's gonna be that she once had suicidal thoughts." "No, really they just said brea-" and I'm like, "Ma, I swear," and so she stayed on the phone with me and sure enough, it was that. But it was so gross because- present it right. Tell the story if you want to if it's an interesting story, but present it right.

JN: (sighs) I hate the media.

SU: It was so- just shameless. The folks on- Jo has talked before about the struggles she went through with her depression and she's very much- I view her as a role model, and she's gone through this, and it was very difficult time in her life, and she talked about seeking therapy. But just for them to exploit it so much instead of looking at the positive. (FF: So flippantly.) It was! It was just...

MA: It's like they were excited to do it. Like "Yes!"

SU: Yes. Yes. Yes.

JN: Whatever sells their stories. (SU: I guess.) Terrible. (SU: So, yeah.) Stupid journalists.

MA: Yeah. You suck.

FF: It's all the Rita Skeeters out there. (SU: And we are.) Put those acid quills away.

MA: Do we have anything else to talk about, Sue, before- (SU: No. Nope.) All right, well, as some of you, maybe all of you, read on Leaky this week, we have formally severed our association with the Harry Potter Lexicon, which is embroiled in a lawsuit right now- well not the Lexicon itself, but their publisher, about its proposed unofficial encyclopedia. Excuse me sniffing, I'm getting a cold. We've never really talked about the lawsuit here, and I hope that everybody here understands our reasons for doing so. We waited a very long time to make this decision because we wanted to be sure that we were truly no longer a partner in spirit with the Lexicon as opposed to, "We're just going to ditch you know because you're involved in a lawsuit," you know? (SU: Mm.) We didn't want that to be what it was about. But what happened, after months and months of the staff always talking about it on the side, like, "What's gonna happen? Are we gonna stay associated?" It was a big question from the beginning. What happened is that we learned that Steve has some views that are just not the same views as our own, regarding Harry Potter and regarding fandom. And it's different if he had a view on the war in Iraq (laughs) or whatever, that has nothing to do with how we run our site. But since we differ so greatly on the fundamental thing at core, about our views on fandom, our views on Harry Potter, our views on what this lawsuit means for the fans. We decided that our views have to be our own and since his views that he's speaking about publicly no longer reflect our own, it was time to make that clear. So (SU: Yeah.) that's why. (SU: It was hard.) Yeah. (SU: But it had to be done.) It was a full-staff decision. I'm sorry; go ahead, Sue.

SU: No, I was just saying it was hard, but it was something that- our staff made and it wasn't something rushed into lightly or wasn't something that we were very flip about or anything. So, I wanted to make sure that was very clear.

MA: No. The Senior Staff had been discussing it for months and we all thought that if things continued along that path, that that's where this would end up. And we wanted to not do it until the lawsuit was over, because we appreciate there's a certain sort of public opinion swaying thing that happens whenever a large entity takes an action. But if those views that Steve has, which is that this lawsuit represents the right for fans to create. And that if J.K. Rowling were to win it would endanger making websites, doing wizard rock, making wands, all this stuff. That's what he said and we directly oppose that. We think that a win for RDR Books in this lawsuit means that copyright owners, and maybe not J.K. Rowling, but certainly copyright owners who don't have as much financial leeway as J.K. Rowling will have to stop being so lenient about fans online for fear that somebody will do this. And will try and take their work and appropriate it unjustly. And that is much different than saying you can't write about a subject that's copyrighted, of course you can write about a subject that's copyrighted. We just don't share the view that a win for the Lexicon is a win for fans. We think that the opposite is true. And so...

JN: Complete and total utter crap.

FF: Yeah.

MA: (laughs) Tell me how you really feel John. (SU and FF laugh)

JN: You don't wanna get me started.

MA: It's unfortunate; we're all sad. We're all- (laughs) I can't even tell you what happened when it was finally time to make the post. But this was not something brought about lightly. (SU: Yeah.) And it doesn't mean anything in terms of the people involved. We wish Steve health and happiness in the future. We wish the rest of the Lexicon staff health and happiness in the future. We wish them long, productive, fruitful lives. But as far as our association with our website and their website is concerned, it really, it just can't happen anymore. (JN: Yep.) And we've never really talked about the suit here. I know we're hedging on it now, (SU: Yeah.) and I don't want to make this a monologue here. I know I'm giving the parting line here, but I just- I want to hear from you guys, outside of any decision Leaky as an entity has made, what are your personal feelings on this suit?

JN: Ugh.

SU: For me, and I've openly said this, Steve Vander Ark was the first person that, I mean, I really contacted when I was in the fandom. And he had remained my mentor, someone I admired. I terribly did. And, you know, he was my friend. And he's my friend. And I'm heartbroken. That's all I have to say.

MA: Well we, I mean I asked you guys- I straw-polled you guys several times over (SU: Oh yeah.) the months and I heard back from you individually and it was never a pressured situation. It was never anything- The senior staff was unanimous that this is what had (JN: No, not at all.) to occur.

JN: If anything, it is a long time coming. There's been a lot of silence from a lot of people in Leaky and elsewhere in the fandom that have kept their mouth shut out of respect to friends and colleagues, even though it's very easy in- It was very immediate to form an opinion about it. And the last straw I suppose in that is to come out with the quotes in the interviews saying that a win on that side is a win for the fans. And it's, you know, it's funny, because those were some of the earliest posts about this whole thing from people, except the exact opposite. That this would be a terrible thing for Harry Potter fans and any other fan, if this suit would set precedence to create rules or to alter perceptions of fair use in a way that would severely limit fan activity. You know, to look at it as a matter of what's at risk versus what's to gain, it's very, very much only people gaining here with that victory would be a very small self-interested party.

FF: Very (SU: Mm.) true.

JN: And what's a bit of money compared to the interests of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions perhaps of fans out there who would stand to have a hell of a lot more to lose.

SU: I just want to say too, Melissa, is it not true Warner Brothers is not saying, "Oh you guys are going to have to shut down." Is that right? I mean I think though (MA: No, they're being...) though that would be a huge...

MA: Well what they're being very vocal about is- I don’t know, I haven't talked to them about it in a long time, to be honest, but in, you know...nobody from Warner Brothers that is. They're saying that, "We really want to win this case so we don't have to look at the idea behind restricting copyright, you know, further online, when it's for free and for fans." If they were to lose the case, that doesn't mean you're going to wake up and the Harry Potter fandom will be gone. I mean, come on this is Jo we're talking about (SU: Yeah.) She's not going to do that to you, (SU: Okay.) but I can definitely see requests coming down the line for stricter adherence to copyright code or less leeway. I mean, look, we have screen grabs from the movie in our galleries. (SU: Yeah.) That is helpful to people when they are making those funny little icons that you see all over on LiveJournal. That's part of the reason we do it because people like to make an icon of Dumbledore pointing or, you know...

JN: Or dancing.

MA: ...or dancing. I've seen that one (SU: Yeah.) many times.

JN: Those are my favorite.

MA: But, you know, it's- that's helpful to a fan. But those would be the first thing to go if we had to start looking more seriously. Now Leaky, Leaky itself is mostly, I would argue, is mostly in the news presentation and commentary category. Most of Leaky would probably be fine. But we would have to make some changes.

JN: Well it's like, you know compare it to any magazine or publication that does a special Harry Potter issue around the time a book or movie comes out. You know they're featuring a lot of the Harry Potter stuff in there, but in a way that's, you know, commentary and presenting it in kind of like a news entertainment format.

FF: They're generating their own content about it.

JN: Exactly.

MA: Yeah.

JN: It's very different.

MA: It's a commentary thing and it's, you know- No the Harry Potter fandom wouldn't disappear. It might change if they were to lose the suit, but more specifically...

JN: You know where it would change first I would have to imagine is...

MA: Our art work on our podcast?

JN: ...in the fan fiction community.

MA: Possibly. I don't know. I don't know how- That's a whole different ball of wax. Legally I don't even want touch it to be honest.

JN: I mean it's pretty much a matter of how fair use is interpreted and (MA: Which is...) what can be done with...

MA: Which is not our interpretation to make to be honest. We're just saying what we kind of (JN: Well no, no.) basically think here.

JN: Definitely, but just looking at things that would be similar, and that make similar judgment calls regarding fair use, is taking copyrighted characters and making them into your own stories. That seems to me, in my head, anyway, a similar...

MA: Or taking a movie and mashing it up (JN: Consideration.) and putting it to copyrighted music and putting it on YouTube.

JN: Yeah, fan videos, and that kind of stuff?

MA: All of a sudden a fan video might be considered okay to sell, and copyright owners are not gonna let that happen. (JN: Mm-hm.) And it's not for, so much, companies like Warner Bros. or J.K. Rowling, it's about smaller copyright owners. Most writers, ninety-nine point nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine-nine percent of writers are not anywhere near as well off as J.K. Rowling. (FF: Yeah.) And something like this happening to them would mean a significant chunk of what could be future profits for them from their work, and so they would have to clamp down on their fandom in the early years before they really grow, and who knows what effects it would have, by not allowing their fandom’s to grow? You know?

FF: Yeah. Mm-hm.

MA: Well, I don't know. It's upsetting. A lot of far-reaching conclusions. (SU: Mm-hm.) But we don't...

JN: I separate the whole thing in my mind from personal opinions on people involved. It was a lot of fun doing Canon Conundrums and that kind of stuff, but I put those personal feelings aside, looking at this, and just treating it as any other person doing these things. (SU: Yeah.) And it's...

FF: Yeah. Well, I think that's a good point, because, to me, it doesn't seem- it's more the situation, because it just boils down to a black-and-white situation for me. It's someone created content, it's theirs, it's widely known that this is theirs, and its one thing to be like, "Can I do this?" and like, "I'd rather you not." You should just from a creator's point-of-view, from someone who claims to be a very avid fan of the work, to not respect the person who came up with it enough to be like, "Okay, I will respect the fact that you don't want me to do this," but to just be like, "Well..." I just- I don't know. (JN and MA: Yeah.) It just seems like a lack of respect to me.

MA: Well, that...

JN: And that's a whole other thing, too. The world of business isn't always nice, (MA: Right.) and isn't always respectful of (MA: Right.) individual people, but looking at that issue separately, we're all here out of a love for Harry Potter, and out of a love and appreciation for J.K. Rowling for creating it. So if your priorities are different from this, than don't try and paint over it with any other...

MA: Look, the whole "It's disrespectful" thing is an emotional fan response; I'm the first to admit. (JN: Yeah.) (FF: That's true. Very true.) That's not a legal response. (laughs) Nobody's gonna say, "Oh, you're disrespectful." It's just that a lot of fans feel that it has not been respectful of Jo. (SU: Mm-hm.) And there is a line. None of us here are saying that you cannot ever talk about Harry Potter ever. There are so many books about Harry Potter on the market. (JN: Mm-hm.) Connie Neal is updating her The Gospel According to Harry Potter. I've read it. It's awesome. I think that's one of the most valuable companion books about Harry Potter out there, and there's many others. Edmund Kern writes great ones. (SU: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.) And there has not been anywhere near 200, 800, 600, however many books there are about Harry Potter, litigation on all of them. Clearly, Jo is allowing this to go on. (FF: Yeah.) Where- this is just, she has just said, "Okay. I've been permissive. I love that you're doing it for free. This is it. This is where I put my foot down." And unfortunately, now it's up to the courts.

SU: I feel like I should apologize for not being more- I am unable to be as dispassionate. This is a very emotional situation, so I apologize to those who have been waiting for me to come weigh- why aren't I more supportive of Jo, or why am I not critical of Steve, or why am I not supporting Steve, or something, and I just, I can't. I'm sorry. I'm just (MA: Sue.) I feel like I have to say that to people, because there's a lot of people who are gonna ask me that, so...

MA: I hope nobody is mistaking me for dispassionate right now.

SU: (laughs) No, no, no, no, I mean, I just can't.

MA: I assure you, there are passions. (laughs)

SU: I can never speak like that. No, no. You can speak- you guys can annunciate things that I cannot. I just- so I am sorry. I just can't maybe contribute to what people were hoping, or ya'll were hoping. I just I can't. I'm sorry.

MA: Sue, it's taken...

FF: I don't think you need to apologize, Sue, because I think a lot of us are in the same position as you. It's just, it's torn, a rock and a hard place. It's like...

MA: Yeah. That's exactly what it is.

FF: It's just, it sucks that the situation had to come to fruition.

SU: Yes, definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

JN: Yeah.

MA: But it's taken us four-and-a-half months to get to the point where we can just talk about it here. (SU: Yeah.) Yes, we've been saying we don't want to talk about it because of the case, but every week, I have to tell you, it's been a real relief that we've had that stance, because it has been so emotional, and so in your face all the time. (SU: Mm-hm.) When you're in the fandom, and you're dealing with it all, it's been very emotional and to the people who think, let me just get this out there, the people who think that our decision had anything to do with trying to shore up support with J.K. Rowling (SU: Ugh.) and Warner Bros. have been absent for the many times we've spoken against Warner Bros. on this podcast and on the website when we disagreed with them. And they have been absent for the time when she came on PotterCast just weeks after the whole lawsuit began and we were still very associated with the Lexicon. So the idea that they have even hinted is ridiculous and I will say that nobody publicly knows just how respectful they have been of our right to withhold a decision. And that is all I'm going to say on that matter. But that accusation is left field and it's also very insulting. So, I would appreciate it if you would think twice.

SU: Absolutely.

JN: Mm-hm. (FF: Well said.) But it's definitely a very complicated issue. There's lots of components as far as the technical and legal everything involved in it. There's lots of conversation about all of that still happening in the Leaky Lounge and in the related news posts on Leaky. It does still feel like two separate things in my head to debate the issues involved behind it and to just have an emotional response as a fan. I think that's what makes it hard to talk about in any way public because you kind of have the responsibility to stick to an analysis or that kind of conversation and not to...

MA: Well, we can't ask everybody on the site to be respectful if we just came on her and started trashing people. (JN: Oh, yeah. Exactly.) That's not- the moderators at Leaky Lounge have been dealing with this conversation for four-and-a-half months and they are spectacular. They have not allowed a personal comment to go unedited. They have not allowed any personal insults. There's things- we've been skating the line sometimes because this is very emotional and we don't want to deny fans that right to act a little emotional where this is concerned because it cuts so deeply to home. So, we've been kind of cautious. But they've been dealing with it so well, and I just have to applaud them. And I just hope that if going forward discussing this you'll take the tone that we're laboring to take here which is that we have certain views- of course we have certain views. No person on Earth doesn't get presented with a set of facts and not make views. But we have not been presenting those views in news posts. We have not been presenting those views as you either agree with Leaky or leave. The only people who get moderated are the ones that make it personal. And, we hope to continue the conversation.

SU: Yeah. (JN: Mm-hm.) And, the trial still is ongoing? Right, Melissa? There is news that Jo is coming to New York? She's going to have to testify?

MA: April 14th. There's some wacky news report out there that the defense called her as a witness, which I got to tell you, I'm finding very suspect. The defense. (FF and SU laugh) She would have to agree. (SU: Yeah.) That RDR called her up and said would you be a witness for us, and she said yes. I mean, come on.

SU: I mean that really is just like, "Hello!" (FF laughs)

JN: That's hilarious.

SU: Yeah.

MA: Maybe they'll get to talk to her on the stand, but certainly, she's a witness for the plaintiff.

SU: Yeah. I think so.

FF: I would imagine. I think it would work out best that way.

SU: That's just- (laughs) I read that and I was like, "Hello? What? What?"

MA: Yeah, I don't buy it. I'm sorry. I just don't. (laughs)

FF: I've seen enough episodes of Law and Order to know that's not true.

SU: Yeah. Law and Order. Yeah. (laughs)

JN: And, before y'all start asking, "No we can't get you tickets to the trial." (MA: Yeah.) (FF laughs) There's no press pass. There's no red carpet.

MA: You would be surprised how many people have asked me. "So, you're going to the trial, right?" I'm like, "I don't know." "No, but they're going to get you in." Who's "they" and how are they- this is a courtroom. (FF laughs)

JN: The PR people at the courthouse.

FF: The judge's PR.

MA: Can I request it if you are going to come to the trial that you're respectful and if you really- (sighs) it's a public situation, but let's please not make this a media disaster frenzy. It's going to be bad enough.

FF: I think it's up to the judge's discretion if it's open.

MA: It's public until something happens that the judge says, "Now, it must not be public." So, for instance, the O.J. trial (SU: Oh, God.) was public, right? (SU: Yeah. Yeah.) (FF: Yeah.) I mean, there's going to be news crews. They're not going to film it and play it all the time the way they did with O.J. It's not murder.

SU: That was the media circus of all time I think. (MA: Yeah.) That was just a complete- yeah.

MA: There'll definitely be reporters there. There'll definitely be stories. (SU: Yeah.) So, if you don't have a real urgent reason, like if you're just going to see J.K. Rowling on a witness stand- guys. It has to be hard for her to have to come out here to go on the witness stand. Being ogled just because she's a witness...

FF: She's not going to sign you an autograph.

JN: She's not going to sign autographs.

FF: Woo!

SU: No. She's not going to stop to sign your books. I just don't think that's going to happen either. (laughs) Yeah.

MA: Yeah. "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and yes, sure I'll sign your book." Like... (SU and FF laugh)

SU: The bailiff signs up there. He's like, "Sign my book."

FF: The bailiff comes up. (laughs) (whispers) "Hey, Jo."

MA: Yeah, he slips Deathly Hallows under her hand instead of the Bible.

JN: Oh, God. (SU laughs) What if that's like force of habit, though, when someone presents her with the book she takes a pen out. (JN and SU laugh)

FF: She just signs it? (laughs)

MA: She takes the bible and starts to sign it (laughs) instead of...

JN: Oh, God. (SU: Jo.) Eat it up Laura Mallory.

SU: Oh, God.

MA: No. Oh, my gosh. She would blow a gasket. She would blow a gasket. We'd see it from here.

SU: Laura Mallory.

JN: (in a girly voice) "Who do you think you are?" (MA and SU sigh)

MA: What? (SU: John.) All right. We've talked about this for a long time. We're obviously not going to get into the "is it fair use, isn't fair use."

SU: No.

MA: Let's just...

JN: No. We're not professors here. (FF: Mm-hm. We’re not going to open that box.) We're not anything like that.

MA: We're all very emotional about it and sorry if any of this came off badly, but it's just hard to deal with. All right?

SU: Yeah.

JN: Word. (FF: Word.) Let's talk about the books.

SU: Oh, I remember those. (laughs)